'THE BUTTERFLY EFFECT' DESIGNERS (BE1, 2015)
(BE2, 2015)
Name: Ian Cameron and Iska Lupton
Job Role: Designers for 'The Butterfly Effect'
Date of Interview: 18th December 2015 at 6.00pm
The designers were sent the list of the questions beforehand. See below.
1) What was the inspiration for the project?
2) What are your aims for the installation?
3) With regards to question 2, how have, or will, these be achieved?
4) What is the connection between yoga and butterflies?
5) What specific techniques and characteristics have you used to create a therapeutic yet educational space?
6) You website states that the ‘installation communicates a key message about the importance of protecting the habitats of butterflies’. How does it do this?
7) What makes your installation different from other insect educational spaces and butterfly houses across the UK?
8) With regards to question 7, do you think yours is more successful in educating the public? Why?
9) Do you think the environment has an impact on how efficiently and successfully people with learn? How?
Recording:
Transcript (conversation with Ian Cameron - BE1, 2015):
Erm [pause], the idea, idea there is to create, er, an attraction, that literally everyone should have some, erm [pause], it should have some relevance to, to literally everyone. So, in contrast to like a, design museum, or, erm [pause], I can’t think of any other museums right now [laughs] or a museum about, about, erm, er, leather or, erm, crocodiles; those, er, obviously, there are lots of, er, niche areas that a lot of people are interested in but, but food, it should be of interest to everyone. Erm, and, surprisingly to us it hadn’t been done before.
Yeah—
[Interposing] So, there are museums that, that, focus on niche foods around the world, like one on noodles or, erm, herrings or absinthe, er, but no one [pause] had actually thought to create a, a museum that was, kind of, all encompassing and focused on food as a whole. Erm, coincidently, erm, a museum in, in New York has opened; erm we were there like a week before them. So, they’re, they’re, they’re called the museum of food and drink, they opened, erm, literally a week later and we’ve already, kind of, hosted their, erm, executive team.
Okay.
But no one, no one had really done food and because of who we are as a studio, we try and do, approach things in a different way, in a kind of, erm, less field, more imaginative way.
Yeah, brilliant.
Erm, so it gets people, erm [pause], I guess thinking about something, engaging with it in a bit, in a bit better. Erm, and [pause] we feel that that makes an experience all the more memorable so that actually the, the messaging you take home will stick in your head and you’ll be inclined to talk to people about what you experience rather than it being some sort of, erm, dry experience, where you’re sort of [pause], thinking of an old fashioned museum, where you’re looking at things in glass cases.
Yep.
So what that means in terms of what we do is it’s, is it’s, it is experiential and immersive and you, become part of the installation itself.
Brilliant.
So [pause], we knew we only had a limited number of [pause], erm [pause], well, a limited amount of space in the museum.
Yeah.
Erm, we only had the museum for a limited time, so we just had to think what are, kind of, the attractions we can put in there that, that would kind of be show stoppers and [pause] I, I was working on a different project a, for a commercial partner, erm, last summer and came across the fact that butterflies actually pollinate, erm, not as much as bees, but certainly, erm, are not, not insignificant pollinators [crosstalk], as they hop from flower to flower. And, in fact, when we looked into it in a bit more detail, erm, we discovered that they were the original pollinators of, erm, bananas.
[Interposing] Yeah.
Yeah—
[Interposing] And, and, although modern bananas are, kind of, self pollinating, erm, yeah arguably we wouldn’t have bananas, er, without butterflies and bananas are probably, arguably one of the most important commodities [crosstalk], which, erm, which demonstrate how food impacts different areas of our lives. So, erm, economically, as a commodity, they’re highly traded. Politically, erm, you can even see how wars have been fought over bananas.
Yeah.
Erm, nutritionally, erm, lots of the world is dependant on, erm, bananas for, for sustenance and nutrition. Erm, so we thought, the, the fact that the museum itself used to be a banana, a former banana store—
[Interposing] Ah, okay.
Erm yeah, a banana ripening store I think, in the basement. Erm all these things kind of came together and we thought we can actually tell a story about pollination and, and, which is, you know, how, how we, erm [pause], depend on our food production ultimately. Erm, so we can tell a story about food, through the medium of pollination, told through the, the story of butterflies really and, and although you could, like, write all that down, it wouldn’t be as fun [crosstalk] as if you were to kind of, live it and walk through it and be in the hot environment that is humid with hundreds of butterflies, erm, surrounding you.
[Interposing] Yeah, definitely.
[Interposing] Yeah, definitely.
Yeah definitely.
That’s a long answer to your question.
No, no, that’s a perfect answer. Erm, I think that goes onto the, onto the second one so your—
[Interposing] Okay, so the aims of the installation—
[Interposing] Yeah.
— Were, erm, to, well, like, I’ll, I’ll sort of repeat part my first answer, engage people.
Yeah.
Erm, but actually tell them a story about pollination and make them realise that, erm, actually it’s not just important, it’s kind of interesting and, erm, it’s not just bees, that everyone knows about bees and their role in pollination —
[Interposing] Definitely, yeah.
— And, and we know how bees environments are under threat. So, certain crops, er, that depend on bees, are, you know, potentially, signpost, erm, [pause] a problem, in, in global food supply. Er, so we’re telling that story through the, through the, through the different angle of butterflies. Erm, not saying that, you know, without butterflies we’re all going to starve to death but just pointing to the fact that the environments have a far wider range of animals. Erm, so butterflies, erm, birds, erm, who else pollinates? Erm, bats, er, all sorts of, er, different insects to a greater or lesser degree also pollinate. Erm, and so our, our food supply is dependent on, er, ensuring that, the continuation of the environments in which they thrive.
Yeah definitely. A question that I didn’t have, that, erm, you just touched on… Do you [crosstalk] think it’s important that, erm, people are educated more about insects? For example their role in the environment because I actually didn’t know that butterflies were to do with bananas before I saw your installation. So how important do you think that is, to get people understanding them, which could ultimately stop people being so scared and make them realise that actually they are important and we do need them?
[Interposing] Yep
Erm, I think, I think we kind of, as a society, often, often demonise creepy crawlies, like we give them that, that name. Erm, and they’re not, they’re not soft fluffy pets [crosstalk] with personalities. Erm, so, so to some extent, erm and, and we’re, obviously, like, fearful of like arachnids and, er —
[Interposing] Yeah.
[Interposing] Definitely.
— but, but, I, I do think it’s useful that things like this, can, can open your eyes to the contribution and the kind of, symbiotic relationship, erm, that, that we have, as, humans, as a society with other walks of life. Whether, whether that is, er, going to be insects or, er, aliens in the future [laughs], or er, any other living thing really.
No, definitely, definitely. Erm, what was your connection between yoga and the butterflies and the whole concept of pollination?
Erm, I think that’s a bit, that’s a bit different. So this, the, the point of that was to say [pause], er, we have a museum, we want it to be a permanent, erm, institution and therefore we’re establishing a programme of events, like a, like a, like an established museum would, which, which leverages and takes advantage of the spaces that the museum occupies.
Okay.
Erm, as yoga can be done, erm, in a hot environment and our, our butterfly room is at, at forty degrees or so [crosstalk]. It’s, it’s really warm in there, erm, and it’s warm and humid because it’s emulating like a rainforest.
[Interposing] Oh wow.
Yeah.
Erm, we thought that was a far more enchanting, erm, space in which to, to have a yoga session than, erm, you know, a, a blank walled gym, which is just full of sweaty bodies.
[Laughs] Yeah —
[Interposing] So, so for, for us it’s about taking people on a, on a journey and you know, really, kind of whatever we do, and we, well, we use this word enchanting quite a lot and I think what that means is, is that it, it does engage your mind and think again about something that you might be useful, er, used to, erm, hearing people talk about yoga and people going on yoga retreats and er, but, but actually making it, turbocharging the experience to make it, really, erm, something that, that perhaps you, you get to tell a story about and that, that other people may be envious about that you have experienced [crosstalk], is the differentiating factor.
[Interposing] Okay.
Okay. Do you think it, er, has something to do with the yoga being quite a therapeutic and relaxing, erm [crosstalk] activity?
[Interposing] Yes, definitely. Erm, because I think, erm, butterflies are intrinsically, erm, relaxing and, and captivating. Erm, and I think you change your behaviour when you’re around them, because you don’t want to, er, we’ve, what we’ve learnt in these exercises is they’re very sensitive to change, er, whether it’s temperature or air quality—
[Interposing] Okay.
— Erm, and er, the, the kind of butterfly specialists who we’ve worked with have been very vocal about how, how erm, important that the, the butterflies, er, welfare is. So it does change people’s behaviour anyway, they’re very careful as they walk in, they’re looking around on the floor to check they’re not about to step on a butterfly. Erm, so, it does make you more relaxed and aware of yourself anyway, so I think that probably nicely aligns with the values of yoga.
Okay, brilliant. Brilliant. What specific techniques and characteristics have you used to create your therapeutic yet educational space? What, what specifically did you do to the environment to make it, erm—
[Interposing] So, there’s, there’s some questions here that I’m going to defer to my colleague, Iska, who actually, erm, ran the yoga session.
Okay.
So, erm, my, my involvement was more at the front end of, like, the, er, you know conceptualising what we were going to do in that space and then, erm, helping advise on actually creating [crosstalk] er, the space, and, and er, bringing in the important people that could, the experts in butterflies and their habitats. So, that question, er, I’ll probably bat to, to her.
[Interposing] Okay.
Of course.
But if we, if we, if we crack on through the others, then I can probably…
Of course. Of course we can.
Erm, I can probably do that more efficiently. So, shall we go through to number six?
Yes, of course, of course.
[Reading from the question list, as provided before the interview]. Erm, ‘the installation communicates a key message about the importance of protecting the habitats of butterflies’, [pause] erm how do we do that? Erm, well it’s, it’s, very simply delivered, erm, it’s, it’s, it’s all delivered by, erm [pause], it’s mostly delivered by, er, written notices [crosstalk], so there’s a, erm, there’s a written, a large written interpretation outside the space. Er, which explains the whole conceit, you know, as I was saying to you, the importance of pollination and the unknown, under recognised role of butterflies in that, in, the, er, perpetuating the food chain. And then that story is reinforced, erm, due, er [pause], by, by more messaging, so , er, on a written basis which basically means, you know, signs on stalks [crosstalk] in relevant places, which, again, talk about, er, different examples of how butterflies act as, er, pollinators, erm [pause[, the extent to which, erm [pause], poorer environmental conditions have had, er, a detrimental effect for their welfare, so you know, the number of species dying out, the number of species at threat, in the UK and globally.
[Interposing] Okay.
[Interposing] Yep.
Okay.
Erm, so, so, there are, that’s basically told through signage.
Right.
Erm, but then there are staff on hand as well, who will reinforce those messages and tell the story vocally
[crosstalk]. And, because you know, we know kind of people, might read things but they don’t really take things in straight away, so, that’s er—
[Interposing] Okay.
[Interposing] Yeah, definitely. Just, just another question, do you have, erm, any, I don’t know, lighting or other design characteristics that try and contribute to it and make the space, erm, try and add to the educational value of it, or how to present the message?
Well, I mean, we’ve been trying, we’ve been [pause], we’ve tried to stay true to creating an environment that, that is as close to sort of a rainforest environment where butterflies would be happiest [crosstalk]. So that’s why it is, erm, moisture rich. So, we, erm, actually humidify the area constantly. Erm, so we had to obviously build this, building within a building because it’s ultimately a Victorian structure but we built in this sort of, water tight, erm, temperature and humidity controlled space. Erm, and so it’s, er, temperature controlled as well so we heat it at very high temperatures [crosstalk], so it’s er, it’s tropical in there, it’s really hot [crosstalk]. Erm, and then the lighting in there, erm, butterflies see, in erm, ultra violet, in the ultra violet spectrum—
[Interposing] Yep.
[Interposing] Yeah.
[Interposing] Okay.
[Interposing] Oh, do they?
— and erm, and the, the plants that we have in there are tropical and they, erm, require special lights called grow lights [crosstalk], erm, which, erm, are kind of verging on the UV spectrum as well. Erm, and if we didn’t have them, those specific lights, the flowers, the plants wouldn’t flower, the butterflies wouldn’t have any nectar to feed on and they’d die.
[Interposing] Okay.
Oh okay—
[Interposing] So, so we, we heat the space, we light it in a particular way and we humidify it.
Okay—
[Interposing] But they have functional reasons, but that also has a profound, erm, experiential, erm, impact [crosstalk] as well. So, you’re in this like, strangely lit environment and it’s really hot in there [crosstalk] [laughs], it’s really humid. And, and even so, the advantages that that all have, as well, are, is that it throws, erm, this very bright light out into the streets, so at night, as you’re walking down, and even in the daytime actually, if you’re walking outside and you look up, you can see this strangely, fluorescent pink environment which [crosstalk] is what it looks like [crosstalk], erm from outside.
[Interposing] Yeah, definitely.
[Interposing] Yeah.
[Interposing] Amazing.
[Interposing] Amazing.
Oh brilliant—
[Interposing] I have some pictures of that, if you’d like, if you’d like… if that would be useful?
That would be really useful! I am actually going to go and see it, erm [pause]...
Okay.
…Next week for myself as well, which will, I’m sure will put all of this into a [crosstalk] lot of context.
[Interposing] Okay. Well give us a shout when you, erm, want to go in. Erm, obviously next week is, erm, Christmas week so, erm, it might have to [inaudible at 00.15.17] —
[Interposing] It might be the week after, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. But what, just drop us a line. Erm, in fact, I would, I would drop my colleague a line, I’ll give you her email at the end, because she manages the space and will be able to show you around.
Oh brilliant.
[Reading from the question list, as provided before the interview] Erm, so ‘what makes our installation different from other insect educational spaces and butterfly houses across the UK?’ Erm, I, I think the difference here is that people have already focused on, erm, the role that the insects play, in, erm, nutrition specifically [crosstalk], but I guess they haven’t focused on the interaction they have on our lives. So they’re more about glorying insects for their own sake. For example, if you go through the natural history museum, walk through butterfly experience, it’s great, it’s done really well and you learn about butterflies and how they reproduce and how they feed but there’s no wider implication. So, our one is designed to take that experience but deliver a more profound message.
[Interposing] Okay.
[Interposing] Yep.
[Interposing] Okay.
Okay —
[Interposing] As well as, as well as, like, you know, we want people to, to enjoy it and, people are curious and they’ll ask questions about butterflies anyway.
Yep.
But, but, hopefully they’ll get this sort of added extra dimension too.
Yeah, no, definitely. Erm, do you think yours is more successful in educating the public than erm, the existing [crosstalk] educational butterfly houses etc.?
[Interposing] Well, I think, I, the, the I think, I, er, yeah, we like to think so [crosstalk]. Like, to, to, to some extent, the question, the, the way you reacted is the way most people react [crosstalk]. Which is, they, they say ‘I didn’t know that’. So that’s, that’s kind of like, well, job done because that was our aspiration for teaching people about this. Erm, and it, and that, at some point they’ll probably, on some level will retain that information and, and tell it to other people. Erm, other things that we would do differently, if we did it again, we’d probably use fewer sign and deliver more simple messages. But, I think that’s just a, sort of, learning curve for us in terms of setting up a museum and a, and a, a, a long, er, duration public installation.
[Interposing] Of course.
[Interposing] Yeah, definitely.
Yeah of course —
[Interposing] Erm, but, but ultimately yes, yes we think it’s been successful.
Brilliant. And do you think the environment or the space in which these kind of, erm, exhibitions are housed can impact how efficiently and successfully people will learn?
Definitely. I, I think it’s, it’s really important and I, it comes back to what I said about, about creating an enchanting journey so people engage with it. It’s easy to say these words engage and enchant but, but what it really means is, is that, erm, you’re, you’re catching their attention and you’re keeping it because you’re giving them a different experience, erm, that’s, you know, completely alien to your normal life because, London in December ain’t tropical outside, it’s not cold at the moment but (laughs), it’s not, it’s not, erm, t-shirt weather. And, and just to, just to create that, I think if, whatever it is, it’s, it’s, it’s about creating a soft of line of separation between daily life and, whatever experience you’re trying to deliver and, and I, by making it different, by having people stop and, and, kind of, reassess their actual life, you’re, you’re, necessarily, erm, making it, making it, the experience different and more memorable and more talkative, you know, so. But, but, it’s going to make them ultimately wanna put their hand in their pocket and get their phone out and take a picture.
Yeah definitely —
[Interposing] And, and, and to some extent, that’s [pause] how we, sort of, define modern life and, erm, if, if you’ve done that, then you’ve instantly got a bit more of a memory trail. Erm, and, if, if the aspiration is to try and get people to learn about something, then hopefully, erm, that, that engagement that they had with it, erm, shows you you’ve done your job.
Definitely. Definitely, no that’s brilliant. Thank you very —
[Interposing] Is that good?
Yeah. That’s perfect, thank you [crosstalk] very much for taking time to speak to me.
[Interposing] Okay, well —
That’s okay! Erm, so, so, when you want to go to the museum, I would say contact my colleague, Mia. So she’s, it’s the same, like, for the rest of her email address, as mine, erm, ‘bompasandpar.com’, but Mia, M-I- A.
Yep.
At the start. Erm, and then [crosstalk] tell her we’ve had this conversation and erm, I said that you’d be able to, like, er, show her round and give her a bit of a [crosstalk], a nice, exciting experience, if she’s available. Erm, and, I’m going to put you through to my colleague, Iska, now and she can tell you any more about the actual Yoga experience.
[Interposing] Perfect.
[Interposing] Brilliant.
Brilliant! Thank you so much [crosstalk] for all your help Ian [crosstalk], I really appreciate it!
[Interposing] That’s okay.
[Interposing] Okay, no problem.
Thank [crosstalk] you. Merry Christmas.
[Interposing] No, problem, bye.
You too! Thanks Katie [crosstalk], Bye for now.
[Interposing] Thanks. Bye, bye.
Transcript (conversation with Iska Lupton- BE2, 2015):
Hello
Hi, it’s Katie McSweeney.
Hey. How are you?
I’m fine thank you, how are you?
Good. Yeah, good thanks.
Erm, Ian mentioned [background noise] that you would be able to talk to me for five minutes regarding the Butterfly Effect installation and the, kind of, yoga and therapeutic aspects of it?
I can try. So, I know the Yoga instructor quite well, so I can potentially answer the questions.
Okay—
[Interposing] So yeah, see, see what I can do.
Of course! Thank you very much for agreeing to speak to me.
Yeah, course.
Erm, what specific techniques and characteristics have you used to create a therapeutic yet educational space?
[Pause] Erm [pause], hang on a minute. If I look something up for you, then I can tell you. Well, I mean, do you, you know the history of the butterfly house? That it was, it’s part of the British museum of food?
Yes, Yes—
[Interposing] Yeah. Erm, and we, I took this lady in there and she’s a trained yoga instructor and she felt like it would be the perfect environment, for, a sort of, bikram style yoga, which is obviously, erm, the perfect conditions for that.
Okay.
And, air full of oxygen and, erm [pause], just, a really good environment for that really.
Okay—
[Interposing] It’s kept at ninety per cent humidity.
Okay.
So, erm, and we can regulate it’s temperature so it’s never more than twenty-five degrees. So, those two elements make it the perfect setting for hot yoga but not, not so that you’re going to get the full extent of bikram. So, we’re doing vinyasa and, erm [pause], and rocket yoga, a sort of mix of the two.
Okay.
So, it’s quite active, erm, but you can keep flowing through and, erm, not, you know, not be overcome with heat.
Okay.
And obviously the sound effects in there are very therapeutic as well, so they’re all natural sounds. [Pause] And then, yeah, I mean, yeah, got natural, real animals and, er, living plants, which is quite an amazing environment because you know [crosstalk], connect with nature and when you’re doing something like that it’s really, really exciting and, don’t know [crosstalk], special—
[Interposing] Definitely.
[Interposing] Yeah, no—
[Interposing] Definitely. What, what was the connection between yoga and butterflies? Why did you think that it was, erm, an effective way to combine the two?
Well, I guess, you know, we set up the museum to get people interacting, interacting with food in a new way and that’s kind of, er, er, a physical interaction is, what we specialise in. So, so to do yoga in the butterfly studio, is kind of, the perfect amalgamation of you know, action and bringing people together in that environment, in a new way of learning. So they’re not just looking at butterflies, they’re actually functioning amongst them.
Yep, definitely.
So, it’s just a completely different relationship, er, with the museum through a physical activity.
Do you think that relationship is important, erm, in order for people to learn and want to learn about, erm—
[Interposing] I think so. I think it just opens your mind in a slightly different way and you might not, you might not be, well, you might not be so conscious of the fact that you’re learning but you know, you’re in that environment and everyone’s’ in there for an hour. Where as if you go in, if you go in on a normal visit, you pop in, read, scan over everything, like you would in a museum and then you leave. Where as, you know, these people are in there for an hour and they become quite, erm, connected with the space and then they inevitably want to stay and read about all the butterflies and, what’s going on in there and ask loads and loads of questions. So one of us from Bompas and Parr is always hosting it [crosstalk], and when people get out they’ve just got so many questions because they’ve been in there thinking about it.
[Interposing] Ah okay.
And how long is the installation running for?
Until the end of January.
And do you think this is enough time, to, kind of, erm, achieve your aims of educating the public and making them, aware of, of the topics and the whole butterfly effect?
Erm, yeah so this is, this is kind of like our first gesture of what we wanna do on a much bigger scale of, as the British Museum of Food.
Right.
Erm, so this is, kind of, the very first signal of, of what’s to come and erm, yeah, I think it’s given people a great insight in what we could create on a greater scale and, and in a bigger building.
Definitely. Definitely. That’s brilliant. Well thank you very much for speaking to me.
Yeah, no worries.
And, erm, I’m going to go and visit it next week, so I can’t wait to see it.
Cool. Okay, cool.
BOMPAS AND PARR INTERVIEW
